The Power of the Ask

The Radical Mindset Shift to End Burnout with Kelley Bonner

• Season 2 • Episode 13

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In a culture that glorifies the hustle, choosing to rest can feel like a revolutionary act. Licensed therapist, founder of Burn Bright Consulting, and host of Black Girl Burnout podcast, and 2025 Savvy Ladies Female FinFluencer Achievement Award Kelley Bonner shares her journey from clinical burnout to building a life centered on joy. She offers a radical perspective on ambition, arguing that much of what we call drive is actually conditioning. Listen for practical tools to dismantle the systems that drain your energy and learn how to finally give yourself permission to just be. 

  In this episode, you’ll learn about: 

  • Redefining Burnout: Why burnout is a systemic problem, not a personal failure. 
  • Being Present: How to stop performing for others and start living in alignment with your own needs.  
  • Ambition vs. Conditioning: Why women of color often carry societal conditioning that is disguised as personal ambition. 
  • Restorative Tools: Practical, five-minute exercises you can use to regulate your nervous system and restore your sense of safety. 
  • Reclaiming Joy: Why reclaiming joy is a powerful way to honor yourself and the women who came before you. 

  Hear ways to give yourself the grace you deserve. Listen now.  

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About Kelley Bonner:

Kelley Bonner is a transformational specialist and licensed therapist dedicated to helping women overcome burnout and reclaim their joy. As the founder of Burn Bright Consulting and host of the top-rated podcast Black Girl Burnout—which has surpassed 1 million downloads Kelley guides individuals on a journey to authenticity and empowerment. 

Drawing on her own experience of overcoming clinical burnout, Kelley combines her expertise in social work and criminal justice to create transformative spaces for growth. Anita Hill has described her work as “revolutionary,” and the Pentagon has called her “a benchmark in her field.”

Kelley’s mission is to help women opt out of struggle and into a life filled with purpose, joy, and resilience. Through Burn Bright Consulting, she provides individuals and organizations with the tools they need to thrive.

Lisa Zeiderman (00:06.386)
Hello everyone, welcome to The Power of the Ask Podcast, which helps you get what you need—financially and personally. We are so glad you're here today. My name is Lisa Zeiderman. I am the Managing Partner at Miller Zeiderman, and I’m one of the co-hosts with my dear friend, Precious Williams.

Precious L. Williams (00:23.879)
Hey, Queen Lisa! As our Queen just said, I'm Precious L. Williams—known as the Killer Pitch Master and the proud Founder and CEO of the Perfect Pitch Group. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back!

This week, we’re excited to introduce you to Kelley Bonner. As you know, with every Power of the Ask podcast, we bring you dynamic guests. I’m going to give you a little flavor—a little tea—before she introduces herself. Kelley Bonner is a transformational specialist and licensed therapist dedicated to helping women overcome burnout and reclaim their joy. Ooh, that’s so needed right now.

As the founder of Burn Bright Consulting and the host of the top-rated podcast Black Girl Burnout, which has surpassed 1 million—yes, 1 million—downloads, Kelley guides individuals on a journey to authenticity and empowerment. Drawing on her own experience with clinical burnout, Kelley combines her expertise in social work and criminal justice to create transformative spaces for growth. Anita Hill has described her as “revolutionary,” and the Pentagon has called her a benchmark in her field. Kelley’s mission is to help women opt out of struggle and into a life filled with purpose, joy, and resilience. Through Burn Bright Consulting, she equips individuals and organizations with the tools they need to thrive.

Lisa Zeiderman (01:48.701)
Kelley, you’ve said burnout isn’t just about being tired—it’s about losing touch with who you are. How do you help women recognize that moment before they completely disconnect and, I guess, really burn out from themselves?

Kelley Bonner (02:07.396)
Thank you, Lisa, and thank you, Precious, for having me on the podcast. I’m excited to have this conversation.

This is a great opener because I do think there’s a moment in everyone’s burnout story—everyone has one—where you realize, “I can’t do this anymore,” or “I’ve got to go.” But it’s harder to recognize the moment before that. You can remember the breakdown, but it’s hard to remember where things went awry.

I think of burnout as a betrayal—both by systems, which we can talk about, and a betrayal of self. When you replay the moments before burnout, I ask people: When did you stop honoring yourself? It often shows up in small ways—warning signs. For example, you say it’s important to be home for your child’s game, a family dinner, or meet-ups with your girlfriends, and then you miss it.

That first gap between who you are, what’s important to you, and what you let go of—that betrayal—is the start of the pathway. Maybe you don’t know the exact moment before it all broke, but many women can say, “Yeah, I remember that. I started working late every night,” or “I said I wouldn’t talk badly about people, and there I was cussing someone out on Friday.” Those are the moments. That’s your warning sign. That’s when you pull back, try something different, and step back to ask, “How can I change things?”

Precious L. Williams (04:09.494)
As you were talking, I thought about the times I betrayed myself, and how that led to very dark circumstances. Thank you for speaking on this. Your work has been called revolutionary by the great Anita Hill. What’s the most radical—but necessary—mindset shift women need to make to truly burn bright?

Kelley Bonner (04:34.564)
Another great question—you all have good questions. I think the most radical shift is recognizing that your work isn’t your identity. It’s just work.

I know that’s hard to hear because many of us aim to do work that’s fulfilling and aligned with who we are—I wouldn’t be doing what I do otherwise. But it’s also just a job. When we start betraying ourselves—when we pick at what I call the visibility wound (needing to be seen, validated, or respected by our jobs)—it’s because we’ve lost sight of that. Your boss can’t be your partner, your parent, your friend—or sometimes even show up as a decent human being.

We often expect what we’re not going to get. In 2025—or whenever you’re listening—work is not who you are. At its highest form, it’s a vehicle to express your purpose. At the most basic, it’s a way to get a check, pay bills, and facilitate the things you love. It is not who you are. Decoupling identity from work is radical—and freeing.

Precious L. Williams (06:20.125)
Yeah.

Lisa Zeiderman (06:21.916)
You’ve also been described by the Pentagon—that’s right, the Pentagon—as a benchmark in your field. How did working in high-pressure, high-stakes environments shape your approach to helping others overcome burnout?

Kelley Bonner (06:42.404)
This goes back to the visibility wound. In high-pressure, high-stakes environments, you put so much of yourself into the work, and you want reciprocation—someone to say, “Good job,” or “You’re the best.”

But the data tells us women are often underpaid, undervalued, and overworked—expected to do every role, plus the one they’re paid for. So I learned to redefine satisfaction. When every day is high-stakes, you won’t get a high five; everyone’s stuck in their own stuff. It’s also hard to know when to back away because there’s always “one more thing.”

I shifted success from a mile-long to-do list to living my values. In mental health—and especially in sexual violence work—compassion is key. If I was compassionate today, it was a successful day, regardless of whether I checked every box. In a pressure cooker, there are limits: 24 hours in a day, seven days in a week. We must honor them.

Precious L. Williams (08:38.557)
As an entrepreneur and speaker, the visibility problem is real—always being “on” and wanting recognition. Burnout is often treated like an individual problem, but you talk about it as systemic. I’ve decided that in certain months, I’m going silent and letting my team post while I just live—no posting, no pictures. Who I am versus what I do are two different things.

How do we start dismantling the bigger systems that feed burnout—especially for women of color?

Kelley Bonner (09:42.840)
Thank you for that—it’s important. I’ve been talking about the need to perform versus simply be. Many people feel that way; many women feel that way; and women of color often feel it even more.

One, thumbs up for disconnecting and choosing to just be. Two, dismantling the system begins with calling it what it is. So much of what we label ambition—especially for women of color—is actually conditioning. We’re taught to work harder and to betray ourselves—historically and culturally. It’s exploitative labor: working harder, not necessarily working well.

We must ask: Is this mine? Is this what I want? Or is it performance dressed up as ambition? For Black women, the “strong Black woman” cape says: deny yourself, don’t complain, tolerate bad behavior, accept pay inequities, and work harder. The data shows this. The answer isn’t to work harder; it’s to reject the baseline the system set.

A major shift for me—before entrepreneurship—was realizing: This is not mine to carry. The way I was working wasn’t coming from me; it was being placed upon me. And I’ve never met anyone who won by simply doing more. We all know people who’ve done less and are further along. Burning yourself out doesn’t equal higher pay or promotion. That’s not the same as healthy hard work. Until we say out loud that our “ambition” is often conditioning, the system won’t change. If more women of color did this, we could rewrite rules and force the modern workplace to meet our needs instead of exploiting us.

Precious L. Williams (12:58.997)
This is why I love being a board member of Savvy Ladies. The issues we discuss here—we’re thinking about them constantly. It’s one reason I left law: I never got to be the attorney I wanted to be. Queen Lisa encouraged me to do things that sounded strange to others but opened new doors.

Not a shameless plug, but with Savvy Ladies we’re having real conversations and bringing in real experts—like you—to show what women, women of color, and individuals are going through. It affects every part of life—career, business, love, relationships. Thank you—and thank you, Savvy Ladies.

Kelley Bonner (14:11.172)
I proudly support everything you all stand for. It’s so needed at every level. I love broad conversations because it’s all connected. When you’re together, your money is together, your emotions are together—your life aligns. We have to talk broadly so the impact can be broad.

Precious L. Williams (14:33.864)
Hehehehe.

Kelley Bonner (14:39.812)
Plus one to that.

Lisa Zeiderman (14:43.804)
Kelley, thank you for supporting Savvy Ladies. We serve so many women across the country and are proud of the work. I’m going to get a little personal. You had your own journey through clinical burnout that inspired your work. Would you share a bit of that—and the first brave decision you made that signaled, “I’m not going back there”?

Kelley Bonner (15:31.704)
Briefly: In my first professional job, I thought I’d do that work forever. About three years in, I found myself a puddle on the floor, crying, thinking, “I can’t do this anymore.” I went to work, quit with no job lined up, told folks what needed saying, and left. I call it a spectacular burnout. It was heartbreaking because I loved the work.

I vowed never to go back to that place. My first brave decision was simply stopping—being humble enough to admit I’d hit a limit. We’re told to deny ourselves and keep pushing. I went far beyond my limit—“crashed out,” as the kids say. That part wasn’t healthy.

But saying, “It’s okay to stop,” was brave. I realized I didn’t need to take every opportunity just because it fit a trajectory. If something made me deeply uncomfortable, I didn’t have to push through. On my podcast I say: I opted out. I started small: “I’m not going to this meeting.” It felt amazing. I told my girlfriends at the company, and they opted out, too. That choice told me I was healing—I was choosing myself.

The second brave step was prioritizing joy. I flipped my life around a joy-centered approach. In 2025, that might be one of the bravest things women can do.

Precious L. Williams (18:22.472)
A joy-centric life—yes! We also keep hearing that 300,000 Black women have been pushed out or laid off. How do these economic pressures intersect with burnout—and what solutions feel most urgent right now?

Kelley Bonner (18:50.478)
Burnout is a simple equation—go with me, I don’t do math: When more is demanded of you than you’re resourced for, you burn out. In a job market where you can’t get a job, the demands keep coming but the resources don’t—burnout is inevitable. The market is increasingly under-resourced, especially for professionals, and even more so for women, women of color, and Black women. Emotional demands are higher than ever. It’s no surprise burnout is at an all-time high.

As for solutions, it’s hard to balance “find joy” with “I need to pay rent.” So first, the practical: mentorship, community, who you know. Pause and reach out—LinkedIn, email—ask people you know to share your resume.

And yes, turn to joy—not as denial, but as regulation. A joy-centered practice can be small: drink water first thing, journal, hug loved ones, dance for five minutes. It’s not indulgent; it regulates your nervous system so you can process challenges and show up as your best self. You’ll interview better, communicate better, and the world often meets that energy. Do the practical—and the joyful—together.

Lisa Zeiderman (22:31.740)
You host Black Girl Burnout. It’s a powerful title. What’s a common misconception about burnout in the Black community, and how do you break that narrative?

Kelley Bonner (22:51.480)
A big misconception is how burnout shows up. Much of the research on depression and anxiety was filtered through white men, then “women” generally—not specifically Black women. Historical and cultural contexts shape how symptoms appear.

Because Black women have long been disconnected from their bodies—historically, survival required suppressing feelings—it can take longer to recognize burnout. Many push past burnout into exhaustion without having the language for what’s happening. Burnout is often framed as weakness, and the “strong Black woman” narrative says, “push through.”

You can be severely burned out and still show up to work as a top performer—while the rest of your life falls apart. People may say, “You look fine,” and you tell yourself, “I’m fine.” To break this, we have to be honest and ask: Is this me or conditioning? Is this my ambition—or a story I was taught? The podcast helps women do the brave work of deconditioning and returning to what truly matters to them.

Precious L. Williams (25:22.033)
As you were talking, Queen Kelley, I thought about my mom, my grandmother, and countless women who were at burnout and beyond. My mother is very sick now. For years, I was angry about how she treated me—water under the bridge. As she enters the last chapter of her life, I’m recognizing I’m not giving her a pass, but I understand more.

Raising three children on a low salary, keeping food on the table and rent paid—that’s not my journey. I don’t have kids or a partner stressing me daily. As we come to the final dash, I see the privilege of articulating what I couldn’t as a child. I have more compassion for women than ever. In 2025, whether you have a lot of money or none, we’re all affected.

For those opting out of struggle—or denying it—I’m 46, I’ve watched loved ones pass, and I’m not into performing. I don’t want to document every chapter. I want to feel life. I want to enjoy it without pictures. I want to kick it with Queen Lisa and my Savvy Ladies board members. I want to hug, to cherish moments in them. I hit burnout this year and I knew why. I’m extending grace to women who never had it.

So, in helping women opt out of struggle in a culture that glorifies hustle and being “on top,” what does it look like to truly opt out—without guilt and shame—so we can rest properly and live a joy-centric life, whether the money or family is there or not?

Kelley Bonner (28:36.110)
First, I’m so sorry about your mother’s health—sending prayers. Caregiver burnout could be an entire episode.

Part of the answer is in what you just opened: I created Black Girl Burnout to honor my ancestry and the women who came before me—because I have the privilege to opt out of struggle. Many of us saw our mothers and grandmothers be resilient, brave, and successful, but we didn’t always see them be joyful. Many Black women tell me the same.

It feels like a duty to opt out of struggle—to honor those who couldn’t—and to help us remove the lenses that say struggle is the only way. I tell people: opt into your true ancestry—your birthright of joy, community, and abundance. Life and history disconnected us from this.

Choosing joy doesn’t excuse harm or forget reality. It gives permission to be happy despite it. I like to say I’m good at holding hope and heartache, and helping women do the same. Life is both right now. We already know how to hold heartache; let’s bring hope back and tip the balance toward joy. That’s not naïve—it’s resistance.

Precious L. Williams (31:45.562)
My sisters and I are dedicated to making sure she lives with joy now—and she deserves it. Thank you.

Kelley Bonner (31:56.029)
Same with my mom. Now we get matching pajamas, we chat, we road-trip. That’s breaking generational curses—healing intergenerational trauma by opening the door to joy. Again, joy doesn’t excuse bad behavior or erase the past. It lets us hold two truths: we can acknowledge pain and still choose joy.

Precious L. Williams (33:02.864)
Wait that.

Lisa Zeiderman (33:05.468)
Kelley, what tools do you use to create safe, restorative spaces for women to heal? What in your background gives you that ability?

Kelley Bonner (33:22.734)
First, I was trained clinically as a therapist. I don’t do direct practice all day now, but the skills stay with me. I’ve always been drawn to somatic work, body work, and trauma—my specialty. The data tells us women—and particularly Black women—are disproportionately affected by immune conditions tied to stress and trauma.

So I focus on nervous system regulation with minimal mindfulness: most people don’t have an hour for yoga (though I love it). If that’s the threshold, 95% won’t do it. I tell folks: search YouTube for “five-minute vagus nerve”—simple practices under five minutes that reset stress. Your body must feel safe for the space to be safe.

Second, my social work background—and my own life—keeps me curious about the stories we tell. I use narrative work: rewriting the story returns power. You can’t always change the circumstance, but you can change how you meet it. That’s empowering—whether I was in prisons, the criminal justice system, or corporate spaces.

I also encourage daydreaming—dreaming in the affirmative. Let your mind wander to best-case scenarios. A little “delulu for 30 days” can shift your life because it opens you to possibility while acknowledging reality. Those elements help me build spaces where women feel restored.

Precious L. Williams (36:20.795)
And now… here’s the final question we ask all our guests: Why is the power of the ask so crucial for women—especially financially?

Kelley Bonner (36:36.984)
Because it’s empowering. You write your own story through curiosity and action—that’s what the ask is. Every time you ask, you unlock new possibilities.

With money, it’s simple: If you don’t ask, you don’t get. Ask, “What don’t I know?” On my financial journey, going beyond “save and avoid debt” required curiosity. I asked a certified financial professional for help because I had no clue what I was doing. The ask was my first step.

Nine times out of ten, it’s not simple—but it’s easier than you think to get what you need and get on track—financially and in other areas of life.

Precious L. Williams (38:11.567)
As y’all can tell, these are the quality, powerhouse guests we bring on The Power of the Ask Podcast—back to back to back. Queen Kelley, thank you for recognizing what burnout is, what it can become, and ways to avoid it. If you see yourself going down that road, check out her podcast.

And keep coming back to The Power of the Ask Podcast, powered by Savvy Ladies, co-hosted by Queen Lisa Zeiderman, Managing Partner at Miller Zeiderman, and me, the Killer Pitch Master, Precious Williams. Tell a friend to tell a friend to—tell a friend—subscribe to The Power of the Ask Podcast. We know times are tough, but there are still ways to live in joy—and that joy radiates into life, love, relationships, business, and career. It’s not over. Keep coming back—we get better and better and better. Tell a friend, subscribe, and drop those comments below. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Lisa Zeiderman (39:24.413)
Thank you. Thank you, Kelley. It was fabulous. Thank you!